Complete asshats aren't just on YouTube videos.
While not VS related, I'd like to share this with other Sifters because we all know that mature discussion is what makes this community so great to be a part of. So, in that spirit, I share this:
In my home state of Maine, the biggest city Portland has decided that they will be issuing birth control to middle school students, and all without parental consent.
Local article can be found here.
Not only that, but they already offer condoms.
When I was a freshman in high school, most guys were still nervous about sex. They certainly were not having it in middle school.
What the fuck is wrong with society?
Since I moved it from ST I'll repeat Raven's comment here:
"WTF is wrong with society MGR is that there ARE middle schoolers having sex, and then they are popping out babies, and of course they have no fucking clue as to how to raise these babies, so the babies get pawned off on parents or relatives and what the hell kind of life are they going to have?? And as for parental consent, that argument is ridiculous, because the kids having sex certainly aren't getting consent to do that... better they get educated at a young age and prevent them from ruining their lives young."
While not VS related, I'd like to share this with other Sifters because we all know that mature discussion is what makes this community so great to be a part of. So, in that spirit, I share this:
In my home state of Maine, the biggest city Portland has decided that they will be issuing birth control to middle school students, and all without parental consent.
Local article can be found here.
Not only that, but they already offer condoms.
When I was a freshman in high school, most guys were still nervous about sex. They certainly were not having it in middle school.
What the fuck is wrong with society?
Since I moved it from ST I'll repeat Raven's comment here:
"WTF is wrong with society MGR is that there ARE middle schoolers having sex, and then they are popping out babies, and of course they have no fucking clue as to how to raise these babies, so the babies get pawned off on parents or relatives and what the hell kind of life are they going to have?? And as for parental consent, that argument is ridiculous, because the kids having sex certainly aren't getting consent to do that... better they get educated at a young age and prevent them from ruining their lives young."
Raven: I am in no way against birth control, but I just think that a girl in middle school really ought to at LEAST have parental consent to get it.
In hindsight I am rather glad everyone in high school thought I was a lesbian.
School systems wouldn't try to deal with this if there weren't so many teenage pregnancies...several metro high schools here have daycares and I've got friends and family members who are raising accidental grandchildren. Not on my watch!
Short of keeping your kids in their room under lock & key, there's nothing you can do to prevent it. I just think parents should be afforded the chance to discuss these things with their kids. I know I would encourage it vice having them come tell me that they're pregnant.
Its sad, I know, but not everyone grows up in a loving home, nor feels comfortable discussing sex with their parents... and that can be true even in a normal family situation. I know in my family we ALMOST NEVER talked about it, especially since I just didn't date in high school, I guess they never worried about me, and any discussion was kind of like, "Don't be like your friend and fuck up, there are options", and I would say, "Duh Mom, I know, I'm not stupid" and we would leave it at that. Although even then I wasn't fully informed, as years later, in college when I finally did decide to go on the pill I was totally shocked that you had to take it everyday... I'd had no idea because the sex ed taught at my school was aimed mainly at preventing the spread of disease and otherwise, abstinence was the word, and the pill never even covered.
So, moral of my story, don't assume that a school system is run by douchebags just because they are trying a new way to combat an ever growing problem. I know it is shocking because its a MIDDLE SCHOOL, but studies show that more girls are menstruating earlier and earlier, some as soon as age 11, and for you boys who don't know what that means it equals ability to have babies, so therefore, the preventative education needs to start sooner than ever before.
"I just think parents should be afforded the chance to discuss these things with their kids."
... I'm sure the other commenters here think parents should play a role in helping a daughter decide whether or not and when to start take birth control. However, wimpy parent's avoiding addressing and rationally dealing with a sexually active daughter for too long is a well documented problem with a very high price for the family and for society in the long run. If anyone's a douchebag here its wimp parents who don't recognize and address the times we're living in...
Re-reading your post, it actually looks more like you're angry with kids having sex early, and want that to stop (presumably by parental involvement?). We live in a fairly sexualized society, add to that teenage rebelliousness and abstinence-only education... so, good luck with that.
"At King Middle School, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland’s student health centers.
Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission, but under state law such treatment is confidential, and students decide for themselves whether to tell their parents about the services they receive."
Sounds to me like they got a good plan of action outlined, and the mere fact that there even is a health center for the school district is great, and definitely leaps and bounds ahead of anything my school system ever had in place.
I think really what I was trying to get at is that it's sad to see things like this happen(kids having sex so young). My only problem with this is that they can't even be bothered to write on that permission slip "Oh, hey, by the way. You're daughter can get birth control from us"
I think then you could avoid the situation that Raven mentioned about parents having an outburst at their kids because they're having sex. Just because it's available doesn't mean they are having sex.
Three options, 1)parent's permission required, 2)parents must be informed, or 3)parents not officially informed. Which option do you think would prevent the most unintended pregnancies? Why should it be incumbent upon the physician to phone up the girl's parents and tell them they're daughter may or may not be sexually active? It seems like that would only deter interest, when the goal is to prevent unintended pregnancy (not drag parents kicking and screaming into the 21st century).
Teenage pregnancy has been a big issue here for a long time, with scores of young unmarried mothers, but I have never heard of this happening in primary school. Not to say it's never happened, however.
I think public schools, like other public institutions, tend to cater to the lowest common denominator, so if contraception is needed for younger populations, then it's probably a good thing that kids have access to it somehow.
I would like to see such a program involve the parents, however, in whichever way works, without alienating parents from child or visa versa.
I would also like to think that as well as offering this, children were being educated about the risk of STDs, because the pill will not protect you from the plethora of nasties lurking in the loins.
Public schools, while the only alternative for most (this by design), are absolute shit in the United States-The mentality of most middle school kids, is absolute shit, thanks to shit parents....the shit cycle continues, as society continues, her retrograde twirl....I am still hopeful, in the midst of such a phenom......because as society at large becomes more brain-dead, complacent, and predictable......I become more energized, challenged, and non-linear-
Some folks are simply luckier than others-
First, age of relevance. A quick search found this, from what looks a reasonable article:
"The average age for a girl to start puberty is at (age) 11 or 12," she said. "But we consider it normal for a girl as young as 8 years old to have her period. Only if it happens at a really young age like (age) 4 or 5 is there reason to worry. In those cases, there could be some serious problems, like a tumor in the brain or the ovaries."
Addressing issues like this must be done in ways appropriate to real life, and real individuals. Not every girl will have puberty onset at an early age (8), but it can be normal/natural for those who do. One size/age for addressing these issues does not fit all.
Culture: Our society expects people to "get together" at quite a late age, historically speaking. Marriage at what we would feel was a very young age were much more common just yesterday, in anthropological (ex anthropomorphic) terms. Our culture is new, and young. And not normal, statistically speaking. (this is not an aesthetic judgment).
Society. (my perspective is from the UK fyi) Our society is far from perfect and reflects the huge differences in quality of the social/emotional/intellectual/support networks etc that exist not just for the kids, but the parents too. I'm saying that what we cant have artificially rosey/high expectations for either parenting, or the children. Thats not to say that its all bad for all of them, just that its not 1 size fits all, and we have to acknowledge this, not hide from it by wishing everything was great for everyone, and criticizing/penalizing kids who are victims of poor parenting/support networks (possibly having parents who also suffered from it).
Parenting:
I might have been viewed as lucky by most of my friends, in terms of my family life, but families are complex things. I'm certain mine was perceived as loving, and a stable middle class home. But my dad was a secret alcoholic, and whilst not violent, i had a terrible relationship, parent/child wise, in that i zero respect for him, or his irrational and unreasonable responses. I would never have come to him about some serious problem, nor my mother (who has never related to me, as lovely a person as she is). We cant isolate further, children who cannot relate/interact with their parents, according to some "Ideal standard" that we make policy by. If councilors/doctors cannot have a confidential relationship to kids, then they cannot offer support that they may not be getting from any other place. Put it this way, for those WITH good parenting, they may not need this support. For those without, it may have a vital impact on their lives, and the lives of their potential kids.
I know not having an ideal childhood != early sex (i didn't get around to it till almost 30) but ignorance/no support is never a good recipe.
MG, if encountering the news of what this school is doing was a shock, that dosen't mean its not an appropriate course for them, and rather the fact it IS appropriate is what is shocking.
Kids having kids? Hmmm....
In my book, the first option will trump the second option every time.
Then I recall some instances of kids doing just that, wandering around downtown at crazy hours of the night. Are the parents absent, negligent, or what?
The issue of prophylactics for young teens is far more complicated than anyone on this thread has bothered to address, with the exception of bamdrew. Handing out hormonal pills to kids that are just entering puberty with little more than a basic physical is tantamount to medical malpractice. Sexual education ought to involve the parents of every kid eligible for it, i.e., the adults, no matter how bored, should be required to attend any sex ed class their kids are in. OMG how horribly socialist of me - yeah, putting the good of society and children above the individual rights of parents to do what they want.
You CAN'T examine or medicate underage children in this country (US) without parental consent. You wait, soon there will be lawsuits towards the district by the parents and good for them. Yet another freedom in this country is threatened..how sad.
Treating children behind parent's backs is wrong, I'm sorry. I'm not saying turn our backs on the problem, but this just cannot be the solution. Instead of leaving the parents out of the picture, why aren't the schools attempting to reach out to the parents more to work together on this problem?
Wow, my daughter is 11 and I can only imagine how upset I would be if a school was giving my daughter medication without knowing her medical history or what other medications she may or may not be on? If she isn't going to tell ME the truth about getting the pill from school, who's to say SHE'LL be telling the school the truth about her own medical history and meds from home?
What if something happens to the child from a bad reaction? Then the county is responsible for the child's illness and/or death.
My daughter has multiple allergies. When my children were in public school, I had to jump through HOOPS with paperwork and doctor's permission slips just to be able to leave an epi-pen and benedryl with the school nurse. They were protecting themselves against liability of course!
I've been considering letting my daughter try the new school where we're moving. Thanks for making me reconsider that decision! I'll be looking for a good homeschool co-op instead...
in addition....
People wonder why the homeschooling movement is growing by leaps and bounds in this country! Oh and the states are trying to take that right away from parents too. There are drugs, guns and promiscuity in our schools...OH, and they just might not be able to read or write when they graduate in some states. It's infuriating so much tax comes out of our income with out our consent for a failing school system we loathe!
Ok, SG's "to hell in a handbasket" rant over now...
"At King Middle School, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland’s student health centers.
Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission, but under state law such treatment is confidential, and students decide for themselves whether to tell their parents about the services they receive."
And from an article @SunHerald.com
"School officials said five of the school's 510 students would have qualified for the birth control under the program last year.
O'Brien, whose district includes King Middle School, said the notion that young children can now easily get birth-control pills is flat wrong.
"They don't just have a giant punch bowl full of pills," he said,
The birth control will be given out only after extensive counseling, and no prepubescent children will get it, O'Brien said.
But Coyne said a physically mature, savvy 11-year-old could get the birth control once the permission slip to use the center is signed.
"I think she could navigate the system," he said.
Portland's three middle schools had seven pregnancies in the last five years, said Douglas Gardner, director of Portland's Health and Human Services Department. He said early reports of 17 pregnancies during the last four years were erroneous."
So, not only are the students getting examined by a trained professional (these are not being handed out like vitamins), but to even undergo the exam in the first place or use the medical center itself, the child needs to have parental permission. I'm guessing this would be in the form of a release waiver that is filled out at the beginning of each school year, similar to the normal safety/contact info/release waiver that is then kept on file in student records.
So, Swampy, in your case, you could always choose to not give that permission, and your daughter would not even be allowed to access the health center and instead rely upon the doctors you designate outside of school. And likely, there will be many parents in Maine who will follow that route, not just because of the access to birth control, but because I'm sure some parents can afford better health care for their kids or have children with special medical issues that they need to monitor. For everyone else though, especially kids from low income families, this health center sounds like a very good thing, not just because of the access to birth control, but also immunizations, examinations, and basic treatments... and might be way more than some of these kids would normally get, and in the case of the Portland school district, it sounds like they need this kind of setup.
Again from the article @SunHerald.com
"The King Middle School is among Portland's most diverse schools, with 31 languages spoken there and 28 percent of its students foreign-born. The school, located on the same peninsula as downtown Portland, draws from the islands in Casco Bay, wealthier neighborhoods overlooking the bay, and low-income triple deckers.
Fifty-four percent of the students are part of the federal free lunch program, which is an indicator of poverty.
Principal Michael McCarthy said the school had just one pregnancy last year, but students were reporting they were sexually active. The center has dispensed condoms since 2000, but because it could not prescribe birth-control pills, nurses referred the students to Planned Parenthood or Maine Medical Center.
"When they followed up, they found that in many cases, the kids weren't doing that," McCarthy said."
It sounds like an environment that would be tough enough for a young girl to grow and mature in, and having an early teenage pregnancy would likely be an extreme burden and only help to perpetuate the cycle of poverty in the area. Coupled with that is the high immigrant population, which means there are probably a lot of parents in the area that are not equipped to deal with the new 'American' environment (i.e.- probably considerably more sexualized in content than the culture of their homelands) that their children need the support to deal with. In light of these considerations, I think that the Portland school system is taking appropriate measures to ensure that their students get the fairest start on life possible, and don't end up at an early age 'stuck' in the environment they are now living in.
Also, as none of us can say for sure what the exact procedures are there, we can't really argue on sticking points like whether or not they are gathering medical history... although, given my own experiences with student health services on a collegiate level, I would like to think that if this place in Maine is being run by health care professionals of a similar caliber, that they would probably contact your child's primary physician for medical records/history... at least, that is what they do here.
I do like jonny's idea that parents should be subjected to the same sex-ed classes as their children, if only because, in a lot of cases anyway, parents might finally realize just how lacking the sex ed programs are in a good number of school systems, and take it upon themselves to either demand a change in curriculum, or better yet, open up a dialogue on the matter with their children.
Ultimately my position is this. It's not the school's, town's, county's, or state's responsibility to provide this... it's the parent's. It's just another tax funded program that ultimately will fail.
Now our society makes the exceptions of stepping in a family when there is evidence parental neglect and/or abuse. But how are we defining abuse now?
Unless you see me neglecting or hurting my child, no one has the right to parent her but her father and me. If the state wants to provide free care via the school then fine, but a parent must be the one bringing that child to the clinic.
All I'm suggesting here with my constant commenting on this thread, is that this school program is probably not as bad as it seems at first, and that its not as if this school district is keeping everyone of its students all pilled up on hormones as a prophylactic measure without giving parents any chance to keep their kids removed from it.
I realize that a health center in a school can provide health care to students who otherwise would not get much (if any). The problem I have with the pill being prescribed in such a setting is that it seems highly unlikely that providers will have the time and energy to conduct follow up examinations. It's also unrealistic to expect a child to provide an accurate medical history (especially if her goal is to acquire birth control). The potential side effects are serious (sometimes, though rarely, life threatening), and a basic physical does not provide adequate safe-guards. This is why it requires a prescription - it's use must be monitored to ensure that it's being taken properly and that any complications that arise are addressed.
The point about parents being required to attend sex ed with the kids is that it would (hopefully) help alleviate some of those dangers, in addition to the other benefits you mention Raven.
The 'troll' comment was not directed at you Raven (in case that wasn't obvious). I'll just go ahead and stfu now before I dig a deeper hole. [edit] We ought to be able to down vote our own comments.
Ultimately this might be bad, as it would then remove their access to the other services as well, but I still maintain that doctor-patient confidentiality is a key part of the strategy in getting kids to seek proper protection for themselves... because trust me when I say this: not every little girl is capable of talking about sex with their parents. This goes for women of all ages, not just 11 year olds, its just one of those topics a good many kids would prefer to avoid discussing with their parents... and at risk teens and preteens certainly aren't going to seek a doctor's advice if they know they will get 'narc-ed on'.
"What a piece of work is a Jonny, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god! the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals—and yet,
to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Jonny delights not me—
nor Bamdrew neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so."
Karaidl:
"My lord, there was no such stuff in my thoughts."
(...sorry, ... choggie's comment reminded me of Shakespeare, as usual)
Are 11 year olds really responsible enough to take a pill every day? Doubt it. Are they responsible enough to be having sex? In my opinion, hells no. The responsibility does lie with the parents, but yes, as Raven has pointed out allot of kids don't have good home lives. This is why in recent years our public schools have almost become surrogate parents for these kids. I think that some of the responsibility is now being shifted to the school.
I can tell you who else is responsible: Fashion. Perverted fashion designers. And Cows. I'll get to that in a minute. My apologies i was looking for a link, but cant seems to find one. I was in the chow hall about a year ago when i saw this on the news. Theres plenty of links for articles,
( http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/22/news/companies/abercrombie/ ) but this being the sift that it is I was looking for a video. Abercrobie and Fitch released a line of thongs marketed towards children evidently as young as 7. So theres a culprit. I'm pretty sure that kids that young don't have the money nor the means to get to the mall and buy that shit at that age. So that leaves *drum roll* the PARENTS. The fact that those prep fuckers are making this shit is bad enough. The fact that there are these degenerates out there are buying it is worse.
Back to the cow thing. During this same news segment they also went into how girls are going through puberty and developing allot sooner. They were reporting that this might be caused by artificial growth hormones in milk. Yes i know its not the cows fault that kids are having sex, but its not helping that girls can physically make babies allot younger. If they couldn't they wouldn't need the pill. and now the pill is an excuse as to why its ok for them. some thing has to be done, but what? very touchy subject indeed.
Fashion, and general media programming in general are having a vast effect on the minds of women, of all ages these days... its sad, but we live in a society where useless, drug-binging, party girls like Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton are perpetually thrust into our faces via tv and magazines. Thus, they become role models and impress all sort of ridiculous standards on young girls... and older girls and women. Suddenly its considered 'okay' in the mainstream media to be a total slut, which is the wrong message girls need to be hearing... I think the episode of South Park that featured Paris Hilton was pretty dead on in regards to this problem... so dead on, I sifted this just for y'all reading this thread... Stupid Spoiled Whore - VIDEO PLAYSET!
Now, getting back to cows not named Paris... you're right, the hormones we have been injecting into our cattle have not only been partially responsible for girl's maturing at younger and younger ages (didn't seem to work on me though... hmmm...), but there are also a whole host of other sources of estrogens and progesterones that we come in contact with on a daily basis. Many plastics that are used to package and store our food begin to break down after a while and leech all kinds of things into our dinners... including hormones... so, in the end, its our own fault and science... DAMN YOU SCIENCE!! No, just kidding, but yeah, it's no wonder girls are menstruating at 11 and people are growing bigger and wider every year it seems.